Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V15_0/V15NO062.TXT

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Date: Mon,  3 Aug 92 04:59:57
From: Space Digest maintainer <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Subject: Space Digest V15 #062
To: Space Digest Readers
Precedence: bulk


Space Digest                Mon,  3 Aug 92       Volume 15 : Issue 062

Today's Topics:
     Beta Testers for Astronomy Lab for Windows *** LAST CALL ***
                         Calendar and Zodiak
                                Delta
          Energiya's role in Space Station assembly (4 msgs)
                        ETs and Radio (2 msgs)
                            Galileo issues
                             Odds of Life
                 Phobos & Deimos Uncertainty (2 msgs)
                        Soyuz as ACRV (2 msgs)
               Space Station Freedom assembly questions
      Testers for Astronomy Lab: NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS!!! (2 msgs)
                         What is the ASRM??

    Welcome to the Space Digest!!  Please send your messages to
    "[e-mail]", and (un)subscription requests of the form
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2 Aug 92 15:58:52 GMT
From: Eric Bergman-Terrell <[e-mail]>
Subject: Beta Testers for Astronomy Lab for Windows *** LAST CALL ***
Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.apps,comp.windows.ms.programmer,comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.moisc,sci.space,sci.astro,sci.edu

*** Beta Testers Needed for Windows 3.X Astronomy Program ***

LAST CALL

I need people to test version 1.10 of Astronomy Lab for MS Windows 3.X.
If you are interested, please send me an e-mail message containing the
your name and e-mail address.  Please do not post your info to this
newsgroup.

Beta testers must agree to not distribute the test version of the software.
Beta testers will be sent the final version of the software when testing
is complete.  Astronomy Lab is shareware.

Beta software will be sent via e-mail as uuencoded .zip files.  You
will need to uudecode the files, and then unzip them on your PC.
UNIX users:  do a "man uudecode" for further information.

Testers will send feedback via e-mail to me:

Eric Bergman-Terrell

[e-mail]
- or -
uunet!edoc9!erict

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Astronomy Lab is one of the most versatile and comprehensive astronomy
programs available for Microsoft Windows 3.X.  Astronomy Lab produces 7
movie

------------------------------

Date: 3 Aug 92 06:37:22 GMT
From: "Joseph L. Lockett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Calendar and Zodiak
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] writes:

>January------Janus the Roman God of Judgment
     Actually, not.  He's the god of doorways, gates, and beginnings.
>February-----Don't Know
     Latin -- from 'Februa', some sort of fertility/purification ritual.
>March--------Roman in origing but cant remember why
     From Latin 'Martius', 'of Mars' (or 'Mavors', the REALLY old spelling).
>April-------- Same
     Don't know. My Latin dictionary suggests it's from the verb 'aperio',
     meaning to uncover, lay bare, or reveal.  Another religious festival?
>May----------Ancient Celtic name for month of the mayday festival that used
>             the "Maypole" central object of worship. Also see Phalic symbol
     Nice try, but this one's Latin too -- from the goddess 'Maia', who's, um,
     'the daughter of Atlas, who bore Mercury to Jupiter'.  Beats me why she
     gets a month named after her.  Your Maypole/phallic connection is right,
     though from a far later period, after the name had been set.
>June---------Roman in origin
     I think from the Latin gens ('family') of the Junii, whose members
     included Brutus, one of Caesar's assassins.  It would be odd for
     them to get a month named after them, though.... I don't have my
     Roman histories handy to check.
>July---------Julius Ceasar's month
>August-------Augustus Ceasar's month
     Points for these, though it's 'Caesar'.
>September----Septimus Severius's month
     No!!  From 'Septimus', for 'seventh', because this was the seventh
     month when the year started in March. Severus is way too late.
>October------Octavian's month (Augustus's real name)
     'Octem' = 'eight'.  See above.
>November-----?
     'Novem' = 'nine'
>December-----?
     'Decem' = 'ten'
>
>Tuesday------?
     From 'Tiw', also called 'Tyr' -- another Germanic god.
>Saturday-----Saturn's day (named after a car plant in Tennessee) or Saturn's
>             day (Norse or babylonian?)
     Saturn was the father of the Olympians in Roman myth.

>Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville
Joseph L. Lockett, Rice University

------------------------------

Date: 2 Aug 92 23:38:51 GMT
From: "Allen W. Sherzer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Delta
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Hughes - VMS Development) writes:

>The HL Delta idea was to cluster complete Delta 1st stage cores, functioning
>independantly, i.e. if one engine shutdown early there would be no way to
>transfer the propellants from that core and run the other engines longer to
>compensate.


sorry but this is not correct. The HL Delta can and does transfer fuel if
needed.

  Allen

--
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
|  [e-mail]     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
+----------------------264 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+

------------------------------

Date: 1 Aug 92 17:41:57 GMT
From: Bruce Watson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Energiya's role in Space Station assembly
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]| [e-mail] writes:
|In article <[e-mail]+, [e-mail] (Gerald Cecil) writes...
|[e-mail] writes...

|+the populsive capability and I believe that the Saturn 1B was launched
|+at higher inclination than 28.5 degs.  The capability was sufficiently
|+marginal however, that the Apollo had insufficient fuel to reboost
|+Skylab after the Soyuz rendezvous.) Energiya is capable of placing about

|
|As the Shuttle has proven many times you can LAUNCH out of KSC at a higher
|inclination. The shuttle has launched at inclinations of up to 57 degrees.
|That is what they did on the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project.  As you have
|shown however, the Apollo CSM did not have the capability to do the plane
|change down to 28.5 degrees, which if I remember right was the inclination
|of Skylab.  Thanks for the good info there Cecil!

Orbital inclination of Skylab was 50.0 degrees. The inclination for
Apollo/Soyuz was 51.8 degrees. The shuttle has been launched to orbits
which range from 28.5 degrees to 62.0 degrees.

|
|Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville


--
 __________________________________________________________________________
|[e-mail]|    "Another Case of too many scientists and     |
|Bruce Watson            |     not enough hunchbacks." -- Gary Larson      |

------------------------------

Date: 2 Aug 92 13:03:34 GMT
From: "robert.f.casey" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Energiya's role in Space Station assembly
Newsgroups: sci.space

Ok, so there is a big penalty launching an Energiya from 57 degrees and
changing orbital planes, but could we have them ship a complete (unfueled)
Energiya rocket to Kennedy and we launch it from there?  Do we have any
launch pads that could hancle it?  Or taken out of mothballs?

------------------------------

Date: 3 Aug 92 02:47:00 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Energiya's role in Space Station assembly
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (robert.f.casey) writes...
>Ok, so there is a big penalty launching an Energiya from 57 degrees and
>changing orbital planes, but could we have them ship a complete (unfueled)
>Energiya rocket to Kennedy and we launch it from there?  Do we have any
>launch pads that could hancle it?  Or taken out of mothballs?

There are no pads that can handle an Energia class bird at KSC besides LC 39-A
and LC 39-b which are Apollo/Shuttle pads.  Plans were made in the original
layout for LC 39-c,d but they were never built.  Also the VAB would have to be
extensively modified to handle integration of Energia which is much larger
(wider) than the Shuttle/Apollo.  From an infrastructure standpoint, which is
much of your costs in putting any HLV in service, it is cheaper to bring back
the Saturn V for launching heavy payloads of any type from KSC. Thanks for
the correction on the Inclination of Skylab. Dang that impresses me even more
that the S V could do that to 50 degrees inclination!

Dennis Wingo, University of Alabama in Huntsville
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Revive the Saturn V!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 2 Aug 92 17:43:06 GMT
From: Jim Dumoulin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Energiya's role in Space Station assembly
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (robert.f.casey) writes:
> Ok, so there is a big penalty launching an Energiya from 57 degrees and
> changing orbital planes, but could we have them ship a complete (unfueled)
> Energiya rocket to Kennedy and we launch it from there?  Do we have any
> launch pads that could hancle it?  Or taken out of mothballs?

  No.  Launching a vehicle as complex as the Shuttle or Energiya requires
  quite an infrastructure.  If you count the launch facilities, computer
  systems, fuel storage facilities, software, procedures and people, we
  have billions of dollars invested in shuttle launch operations.   Very
  little of this could be "relocated" cheaply and I'm sure the soviet
  situation isn't much different.

  Besides, how would you propose something as large as the Energiya would
  get shipped out of Baikonur.  The US ships its External Tank by barge
  fromMichoHow would an Energiya get here?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Jim Dumoulin                      INTERNET: [e-mail]
   NASA / Payload Operations      SPAN/HEPnet: KSCP00::DUMOULIN
   Kennedy Space Center
   Florida, USA  32899



------------------------------

Date: 2 Aug 92 12:40:05 GMT
From: James Annis <[e-mail]>
Subject: ETs and Radio
Newsgroups: sci.space

[e-mail] (Gary Coffman) writes:
>
>Now subtract out all Population II stars, no heavy elements like iron,

Not that a factor of 2 makes any difference when trying to do
a Drake equation analysis, but..

Population II stars generally have anywhere from 1% to 100% of the iron
that the sun has.  This is an observational fact. Not exactly understood
completely ("Well, it implies the existance of Pop III stars"),
but arguing with observations is pointless.  To my knowledge, there is no
star known with less than 0.1% of the solar metal abundance.

When it comes right down to it, a globular cluster isn't a half bad
place to do a seti. For instance, 47 Tuc has solar metal abundance,
and has something like a million stars in a very small volume.

--

James Annis               [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 2 Aug 92 16:36:03 GMT
From: Gary Coffman <ke4zv!gary>
Subject: ETs and Radio
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Coffman) writes:
>>
>>The potential liquid water zone of a G star like ours is roughly from
>>near Venus orbit to somewhat beyond Mars orbit given specially designed
>>planets in the various places. Now on the solar system scale, that's a
>>small range of distances.
>
>    What about worlds like Europa, where the surface is frozen ice(s),
>but a liquid ocean exists under the crust? You get radiation shielding
>without a magnetic field that way, too.

I can't say no because there is life on Earth that operates off the
thermal energy of deep ocean vents, but for cellular life to arise
the common thinking is that surface tension effects at the air/water
interface and UV energetics are required. This is the so called small
warm pond effect. The requirement of liquid water on the surface narrows
the life zone. Vent life is thought to have evolved from previously
existing surface life.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: 02 Aug 92  13:02:18
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Galileo issues
Newsgroups: sci.space

There is some probability that the Galileo High Gain antenna will not
be deployed during its mission to Jupiter; i.e. the mission will be
conducted under the constraints of the transmission capability of its
Low Gain antenna. This would mean a considerable loss in the data
returned by the spacecraft, even with the heroic efforts of the Jet
Propulsion Laboratory to capture a large chunk of the science data
at Jupiter.

I would like to explore some possible means of capturing the Galileo
data by using an inexpensive spacecraft as a relay  station, and hope
that one of these may prove useful.

1)      Use of Soviet hardware. This has been much discussed; without
much reference to actual Soviet capabilities. The optimum launch vehicle
would be the upcoming Proton KM, with its cryogenic fourth stage. To
reach Jupiter, an additional fifth stage would be necessary; the optimum
fith stage would be the Blok-A stage presently used for launching Molniya
communications satellites; with a specific impulse of 350 seconds, the
Blok-D is more fuel efficient than any non-hydorgen powered upper stage,
easily outpacing the escape stages used for the launch of Galileo and
Ulysses. The Proton KM with this minor modification would be able to
launch at least 500 kg in a trans Jovian trajectory in the mid 1990's.
       The ideal payload would be a U.S. Pioneer class spacecraft,
essentially a clone of Pioneer 10, with the addition of a orbital
injection engine to allow the spacecraft to orbit Jupiter.
        The price tag for this mission should be less than $150 million.

2.      A Discover-class spacecraft. Presently a specification for an
extremely inexpensive Explorer-type probe, the Discoverer class is designed
for exploration of the Moon and Mars.  Can the Discoverer be modified
for use in the Jovian environment? The major obstacle is the lack of RTGs
on the Discoverer, which uses standard solar panels and batteries for energy.
Solar panels are too inefficient at the distance of Jupiter from the Sun.
Or are they? Perhaps solar panels, coupled with large batteries would allow
a Discover spacecraft to operate for several months at Jupiter to act as
a relay station for signals from Galileo. All of the Discoverer's scientific
payload would be removed, and thus, the only systems to draw energy during
the mission would be the radio and an on-board computer to monitor the
spacecraft. How long could a Discoverer spacecraft operate under these
conditions, given large solar panels?

3.      Use of Cassini. During the early 2000's, the Cassini spacecraft will
use Jupiter as a slingshot to reach its intended target of Saturn. During its
flyby of Jupiter, Cassini should be able to serve as a relay for signals
from Galileo, assuming the latter is still functional at that time, and
assuming Cassini is not cancelled during the 1990's.

4.      Use of Ulysses. This spacecraft is presently in an orbit that takes
it out of the ecliptic, and over the poles of the Sun. Its orbit does
intercept the ecliptic, at the distance of Jupiter. Can Ulysses' orbit
be modified so that the next time it reaches its maximum distance from the
Sun at the ecliptic that Jupiter is nearby, and thus Ulysses serve as a
relay station?

--- Maximus 2.00

------------------------------

Date: 2 Aug 92 16:44:54 GMT
From: Richard Ottolini <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odds of Life
Newsgroups: sci.space

Statistical sophistry.
One can conceive of endless scenerios that would have prevented one's
parents from copulating on the day of one's conception and claim it was
a zillion zillion odds against one coming into existance.  Not unlike
Zeno's paradox.

------------------------------

Date: 2 Aug 92 15:02:12 GMT
From: Stephen McCluskey <[e-mail]>
Subject: Phobos & Deimos Uncertainty
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space

      I checked in my wife's big Liddell and Scott, Greek-English
Lexicon (note cautious denial of expertise) and found the following:

Deimos:  Fear, terror.  II. Personified as accompanying Phobos.

Phobos:  Panic flight.  2.  Personified, as son of Ares [i.e., Mars].
    II. Panic fear; generally fear, terror... continues for almost a
    full column.

    Mythologically, it makes sense that panic is an offspring of
the god of war, especially if you're a Greek infantryman fighting face to
face with your opponents.  I think that's enough to tie Deimos and Phobos
together as a pair, one of whom is associated with Mars.  What else do
you name two new-found companions of Mars?

--  Steve McCluskey

------------------------------

Date: 3 Aug 92 01:47:32 GMT
From: "NR SC RQ DTJ P PTU L KOHD,,," <[e-mail]>
Subject: Phobos & Deimos Uncertainty
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space

Lessee, according to my text book:

Phobos: fear
Demios: panic

O.K?

------------------------------

Date: 2 Aug 92 23:58:06 GMT
From: "Allen W. Sherzer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Soyuz as ACRV
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Matthew DeLuca) writes:

>The 'already existing hardware' is the Soyuz; I was trying to say that the
>cost savings from using a currently-existing vehicle (Soyuz) will likely
>be eaten up by the cost of converting and certifying it for duty, so we

Converting shouldn't be hard. Launch companies routinely change the launcher
to whatever interface the payload desires. In fact, using Soyuz may help
promote interface standards which will reduce costs.

As to certification, WHY? dozens of them have flown over twenty plus years.
It's OPERATIONAL reliability is great. I would feel safer flying a soyuz
then on a Shuttle.

  Allen
'
--
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
|  [e-mail]     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
+----------------------264 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+

------------------------------

Date: 3 Aug 92 01:47:37 GMT
From: Matthew DeLuca <[e-mail]>
Subject: Soyuz as ACRV
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Matthew DeLuca) writes:

>Converting shouldn't be hard. Launch companies routinely change the launcher
>to whatever interface the payload desires. In fact, using Soyuz may help
>promote interface standards which will reduce costs.

There's more than just the launcher-capsule interface to consider.  Power
systems, communications protocols, computer interfaces, et cetera may all
need some work.  I don't know all the details, but I would be surprised
if you can just modify the launcher a bit and use a Soyuz in the U.S.

>As to certification, WHY? dozens of them have flown over twenty plus years.
>It's OPERATIONAL reliability is great. I would feel safer flying a soyuz
>then on a Shuttle.

I'm not referring to launch and landing certification, although if we do
have to modify the internals we'd probably want to give it a few tests.  I
am referring to the work needed to make sure the Soyuz can stay up for months
and years as a lifeboat; it's not designed for that.  If we take the easy
way out and swap capsules every few months, we're going to eat up our
potential savings in repetitive launch costs and capsule procurment.  Using
Soyuz is hardly a guaranteed cheap-and-easy solution to the question of
guaranteed crew return.
--
Matthew DeLuca                      "I'd hire the Dorsai, if I knew their
Georgia Institute of Technology      P.O. box."
Office of Information Technology                - Zebediah Carter,
Internet: [e-mail]              _The Number of the Beast_

------------------------------

Date: 2 Aug 92 23:52:40 GMT
From: "Allen W. Sherzer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Space Station Freedom assembly questions
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>The cross plane maneouver from 51 degrees down to 28.5 degrees has an
>enormous penalty in payload.  This is why you will NEVER see a Soyuz at
>SSF orbit unless it is on Energia.

Or an Atlas :-).

   Allen
--
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
|  [e-mail]     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
+----------------------264 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+

------------------------------

Date: 2 Aug 92 12:24:00 GMT
From: "Paul J. Gravestock" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Testers for Astronomy Lab: NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS!!!
Newsgroups: sci.space

>
>[e-mail] (Eric Bergman-Terrell) writes:
>:
>: *** Beta Testers Needed for Windows 3.X Astronomy Program ***
>:
>: *************************************************************************
>: * Sorry about the unreliable e-mail address.  I have a new one that     *
>: * should work: uunet!edoc9!erict                                        *
>: *************************************************************************
>:

Does this guy exist ? These are the responses I've had with mail

While talking to edoc9.uunet:
>>> DATA
<<< 550 (BHST) Unknown host/domain name in "[e-mail]"
<<< 503 No recipients have been specified.
---------------------------------------------------------------
While talking to nyx.cs.du.edu:
>>> DATA
<<< 550 <[e-mail]>... User unknown

Eric, if you are out there I think you should know that your mailer system is
trying to sabotage your efforts to get beta testers, can you email me ?

Paul

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul J. Gravestock                  | email: [e-mail]
Hertfordshire                       |        [e-mail]
England                             |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1992 21:03:05 +0000
From: "Paul J. Gravestock" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Testers for Astronomy Lab: NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS!!!
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>While talking to nyx.cs.du.edu:
>>>> DATA
><<< 550 <[e-mail]>... User unknown

OK, spot the deliberate mistake !, so I can't spell Eric's ID correctly, what
a night its been.

B-)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul J. Gravestock                  | email: [e-mail]
Hertfordshire                       |        [e-mail]
England                             |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Aug 92 05:13:04 GMT
From: Brent Butler <[e-mail]>
Subject: What is the ASRM??
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle

If anybody has some info on NASA's Advanced Solid Rocket Motor could
you please post/send it to me.  I can't seem to find anything in
the FAQ files.  (Editorial comment about it's usefulness etc. is
also welcome.)

-Brent

------------------------------

End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 062
------------------------------